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McCarthyism -- Uh, I Mean, National Security Begins in the Classroom!

Politics
By Paul Shrug, Section News
Posted on Thu May 15th, 2003 at 03:47:44 PM PDT
At Oakland (CA) High School, during a classroom debate about the Iraqi War, one student, John, casually joked that "we need a sniper to take care of Bush." His friend, Billy, laughed and responded, "I'll do it!"

Their teacher, Sandy Whitney, considered that a threat to the life of the President, so she turned her own students in to the feds.

In no time Secret Service agents had swarmed upon Oakland High to interrogate John and Billy, who upon asking the agents for the right to remain silent until attorneys were consulted, were told by the agents, "We own you. You don't have any legal rights."

Well, at least someone in the Bush Admin finally has the balls to say it out loud: Citizens, you're our bitches.

Initial reports from KRON, as linked to above, didn't mention the exact nature of the "threat" John or Billy had made. The Oakland Tribune reported, after interviews with John and Billy, about the sniper comment. John made it and Billy agreed. Billy also said, "Bush is wacked." In addition to "wacked" being a slang term for crazy, stupid or simply mentally incapable, "whacked" is of course also hitman speak for "assassinated".

A very paranoid Whitney -- who apparently has spent her entire life not hearing one single fleeting desire that whatever President was in office would just dry up and die -- called the feds.

The agents reportedly held John and Billy in a private room with no adults present. When John asked if they had the right to remain silent (which they do, don't they?), the feds made the "we own you" remark. There are two reasons that's troubling. The obvious one is that the feds clearly breached the laws of fair interrogation. At the very least, students have the right to have a parent or adult figure in the room when they're being grilled.

The second reason that's troubling (in my opinion, which I concede will sound like a stretch) is because this took place in Oakland's inner city. Although the race of John and Billy isn't revealed, Oakland's inner city has had a high minority population for decades. During Bush Sr.'s Administration, lots of theories about the decrepit condition of ghettos and inner city kids revolved around the Bush Family's channeling drugs into the inner city via the CIA, which Bush Sr. headed at one time.

So, the agents could have, if you buy that theory, and I don't dismiss it, been saying something even more packed with meaning than "During this time of crisis, we own your asses." They could have been saying "We've owned your ass ever since we let Noriega pipe rock candy into your streets."

Okay, it's a bit of fancy on my part, but that's what struck me at first anyway.

Back to the kids -- Oakland teachers are really pissed off at one of their own for this one, saying John and Billy were clearly deprived of their legal rights to free speech when the teacher picked up the phone. The kids are traumatized over this, the parents are considering a lawsuit.

So the next time we're at a bar discussing how we should handle the Bush problem, I guess we should limit our final solution to a high colonic or else the bartender's going to have to turn us in.

This story came to my attention through morons.org.

< Mom, Dad, stay out of the basement... (5 comments) | Don't let it die! (2 comments) >


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· so she turned her own students in to the feds
· Oakland Tribune
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McCarthyism -- Uh, I Mean, National Security Begins in the Classroom! | 14 comments (13 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)
I Have a Question... (none / 0) (#2)
by King Dinosaur (KingD@Hailtotheking.com) on Wed May 14th, 2003 at 03:08:22 PM PDT
(User Info) http://www.kingdinosaur.com

While this whole thing is undeniably scary and silly at the same time, I just have to ask: Were these kids under arrest when they were interrogated? Because, I believe the "right to remain silent" only applies if you're under arrest. Otherwise - as the musclehead Secret Service man put it - "They own you". This applies in lower police procedure, too, I think. It's a way of getting around allowing us any rights in this sort of situation. Someone correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not %100 postive about this.

Anyway, this whole thing is wacked - oh shit! Whoops!


"It ain't no broken." - Scott Taylor



Fugitive from the SLA (none / 0) (#3)
by Mister Rum n Coke (mdhpiper@hotmail.com) on Wed May 14th, 2003 at 04:29:03 PM PDT
(User Info) http://rdos.blogspot.com

Two Decades ago....okay, August of 1988, I was on KPLZ at 4:00 in the morning saying that Dan Quayle should be shot. I have an audio of that in storage somewhere: I better get my shredder ready.


I'm sorry but I have had it! I have never heard of such a Christmas!! Sex... and drugs... an-an-and women being set on fire!
[ Parent ]



Good question (none / 0) (#4)
by Paul Shrug (paulshrug@YourSadCareerAsASpammer.gmail.com) on Wed May 14th, 2003 at 05:18:42 PM PDT
(User Info) http://museumpoparch.blogspot.com

Not sure of the answer though... mebbe the admins who are much better at knowing this kind of thing can help?

--Shrug
Now Doing Weddings And Irony
[ Parent ]



That's about right, (none / 0) (#9)
by hot blooded (ilovedraculaBUTIHATESPAM@hotmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2003 at 04:25:07 PM PDT
(User Info)

except technically we all have the right to remain silent, as stated in the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution (protection from self-incrimination). We all also have the right to hire an attorney for any reason at any time we feel like it. Technically, nobody is allowed to "make" you talk, even if under oath you can plead the Fifth (you know, like on Law and Order). They just don't have to *tell* you those things until you are officially under arrest. So often they use interrogation and detention as a way to extract incriminating information from people who don't know their rights (but there is also a limit to how long the police can hold you without charging you).

Of course, that applies to domestic law enforcement only. I have no idea what rules the Secret Service have to follow, but it appears the answer might be none.

hb: I'm having a party in my refrigerator and you're invited.
sw: That's so cool!

[ Parent ]



This is ludicrous (none / 0) (#5)
by Melissa on Wed May 14th, 2003 at 10:19:09 PM PDT
(User Info)

I cannot believe the actions taken by that teacher. What was she thinking? What century are we living in here??? It makes me sick to my stomach to think that there are actually people that paranoid, that ignorant, that flat-out stupid, who would call the Secret Service when two high school boys make a flippant comment. I mean, was this her first day on the job? Has she ever met a teenage boy? Although anyone certainly could have made this comment without any reason for questioning, it would only be natural that a young boy would say something to the effect of "Let's get him!" I would be painfully ashamed and embarrassed if I was that teacher.

Get a fucking grip.



Let's say (none / 0) (#6)
by Paul Shrug (paulshrug@YourSadCareerAsASpammer.gmail.com) on Wed May 14th, 2003 at 10:28:20 PM PDT
(User Info) http://museumpoparch.blogspot.com

Let's pretend that the teacher had real, total conviction that she had grounds for being concerned.

Does she call the principal first, as she should? No.

Does she call the parents of the kids first? No.

She calls the feds.

This teacher should be kil... I mean, fired.

--Shrug
Now Doing Weddings And Irony
[ Parent ]



On the topic of offing Bush (none / 0) (#7)
by matt (matt [at] satanosphere dotcom) on Thu May 15th, 2003 at 10:26:35 AM PDT
(User Info) http://www.satanosphere.com

Let's hope the Secret Service never reads this little site, okay?

_____

Who has the "Oblique Diary Crown" right now? Rat? Well hand it over, buddy. -Zombified



You kidding? (none / 0) (#8)
by Paul Shrug (paulshrug@YourSadCareerAsASpammer.gmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2003 at 04:17:02 PM PDT
(User Info) http://museumpoparch.blogspot.com

I write on this site every day with the full expectation that we're fucked.

--Shrug
Now Doing Weddings And Irony
[ Parent ]



slight analysis error (none / 0) (#10)
by rat (rat [at] anarchy DOT gov BACKSLASH eugene) on Thu May 15th, 2003 at 05:49:46 PM PDT
(User Info) http://www.thismodernworld.com

the principal was present with the kids and the agents.


*scowl*



Error noted (none / 0) (#11)
by Paul Shrug (paulshrug@YourSadCareerAsASpammer.gmail.com) on Fri May 16th, 2003 at 02:58:50 AM PDT
(User Info) http://museumpoparch.blogspot.com

Thanks for the heads up...

--Shrug
Now Doing Weddings And Irony
[ Parent ]



Someone refresh my memory (none / 0) (#12)
by feste22 on Mon May 19th, 2003 at 11:27:55 AM PDT
(User Info)

Wasn't there some sketch comedy show that did a "I'm gonna shoot the president" sketch, where any time anyone said that, the secret service would barge in and tackle whoever said it? Funny thing is, I remember being warned in grade school that you should never say that out loud because it would get you in trouble. They likened it to saying "I've got a bomb" in an airport. I thought my teachers were a bit paranoid at the time, but now all I can say is thank God for my nice paranoid Catholic education.



Dunno... (none / 0) (#13)
by Paul Shrug (paulshrug@YourSadCareerAsASpammer.gmail.com) on Wed May 28th, 2003 at 01:41:31 PM PDT
(User Info) http://museumpoparch.blogspot.com

Yelling "I've got a bomb" in an airport, which is a directly confrontational statement, doesn't strike me as quite the same as off-handedly wishing the President was dead, especially in an environment where the President isn't in the vicinity.

Funny how it's perfectly acceptable to proclaim one's wish that President Saddam Hussein would be killed, whereas it ain't okay to say that about the American representative. Which is not to say I'm a fan of Hussein -- far, far from it -- but he was the President.

--Shrug
Now Doing Weddings And Irony
[ Parent ]



Know your rights. (none / 0) (#14)
by Maurkov on Sat Jun 7th, 2003 at 10:48:28 PM PDT
(User Info)

Im new here, so I hope I am posting in an appropriate style.

Everyone should know his or her rights. Requiring officers to inform suspects of their rights is pathetic. If you don't know your rights you are in no position to exercise let alone defend them. The PATRIOT act only makes sense to people who don't understand what they're giving away.

Making threats against the president is a federal offense (18 U.S.C. § 871). Without hearing the context, I'm in no position to judge whether this was said in jest (and therefore free speech) or a true threat (which doesn't require intent). The teacher was, and made a judgment call; only probably a bad one.

The real reason I think the teacher ought to be spanked is because she failed to teach her students anything from paragraph 1 or 2. Maybe that was the point of calling the feds. Those kids know a thing or two about government now.

As for the "we own you" comment, you already mentioned that these kids are probably black. Could the agents have meant it in the slavery sense? They could have been saying, "We've owned your asses since we shipped them here from Africa." Is that more of a stretch than yours? I don't buy either of them.

Anyway Echelon has already flagged this thread, so I'd better be moving on.

Maurkov



McCarthyism -- Uh, I Mean, National Security Begins in the Classroom! | 14 comments (13 topical, 1 editorial, 0 hidden)
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